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developing nations
March 2009 
SDi Intro To Developing Nations?
Posted on Feb 10th, 2008
by 
profundity
profundity
In response to...
Re: How to introduce Spiral Dynamics to developing nations?
My question is, "How do you see SDi as being useful in developing nations?"
It appears to me that SDi may be kind of like a computer operating system that enables people to run programs like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro but does not necessarily get the credit for what those programs actually produce. Or, to put it differently, it might be like a blue or first-tier person doing things in a humble and humane way and having an ultimate turquoise or third-tier effect but not getting recognized as such. Or, I totally read every issue of "What is Enlightenment" magazine and agree that they know what they are talking about however I don't personally know anyone else who reads the magazine nor do I see very many people whom I would consider to be enlightened. However, the magazine HAS helped me to explain certain concepts better albeit I would probably not credit the magazine for any specific thought that I had in regard to my personal understanding of things.
So, might there be a type of paradox or esoteric puzzle involved with SDi?
Do any of these analogies work in this sense from your perspective?
It appears that getting certain people to talk and/or dialogue is a GREAT step toward resolution because as someone somewhere on GAIA mentioned (paraphrased to the best of my ability from potentially faulty memory), “If there is EVER a disagreement of any kind by any two specific people or groups then then BOTH (or all) people need to learn something, either one person needs to learn how to explain themselves better, or, someone needs to learn-how-to-learn better, or, perhaps both by both people or groups.” If you can't find that quote then by all means attribute it to me, a non-entity, or, if you truly think that you understand it then simply integrate it into your thinking process and allow it to pervade your WORK.
;o)
I did not notice such an intentional learning factor or process in SDi. Might I have missed something that has to do with the fact or at least the seeming-to-me obvious necessity that learning MUST take place in order to resolve ANY issue? Obviously if any person or group is stuck in their particular position or particular expression/languaging of their position, that may have different translations or interpretations than the seemingly obvious ones, then the challenge of learning how to express oneself ever more effectively or to a deeper degree of subtle complexity so as to nudge the stucked element or aspect would seem to me to be paramount.
What do you think?
Re: How to introduce Spiral Dynamics to developing nations?
My question is, "How do you see SDi as being useful in developing nations?"
I can see how SDi is or can be a useful tool for communicating the challenge of obtaining truly integral results but how do you see that helping a developing nation? That appears to me to only provide a means for not trusting anyone and/or determining how falible people are. Even the people who reach the higher SDi tiers are still demonstrated to have non-integral qualitites. Without accurate information how can anyone do the right thing? How can demonstrating the true depth of human insanity help a nation that is attempting to overcome the results of that insanity?
In other words, how do you see SDi as transcending fascistic tendencies?
Where is the “integrity” in that endeavor?
It appears to me that SDi may be kind of like a computer operating system that enables people to run programs like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro but does not necessarily get the credit for what those programs actually produce. Or, to put it differently, it might be like a blue or first-tier person doing things in a humble and humane way and having an ultimate turquoise or third-tier effect but not getting recognized as such. Or, I totally read every issue of "What is Enlightenment" magazine and agree that they know what they are talking about however I don't personally know anyone else who reads the magazine nor do I see very many people whom I would consider to be enlightened. However, the magazine HAS helped me to explain certain concepts better albeit I would probably not credit the magazine for any specific thought that I had in regard to my personal understanding of things.
So, might there be a type of paradox or esoteric puzzle involved with SDi?
Do any of these analogies work in this sense from your perspective?
It appears that getting certain people to talk and/or dialogue is a GREAT step toward resolution because as someone somewhere on GAIA mentioned (paraphrased to the best of my ability from potentially faulty memory), “If there is EVER a disagreement of any kind by any two specific people or groups then then BOTH (or all) people need to learn something, either one person needs to learn how to explain themselves better, or, someone needs to learn-how-to-learn better, or, perhaps both by both people or groups.” If you can't find that quote then by all means attribute it to me, a non-entity, or, if you truly think that you understand it then simply integrate it into your thinking process and allow it to pervade your WORK.
;o)
I did not notice such an intentional learning factor or process in SDi. Might I have missed something that has to do with the fact or at least the seeming-to-me obvious necessity that learning MUST take place in order to resolve ANY issue? Obviously if any person or group is stuck in their particular position or particular expression/languaging of their position, that may have different translations or interpretations than the seemingly obvious ones, then the challenge of learning how to express oneself ever more effectively or to a deeper degree of subtle complexity so as to nudge the stucked element or aspect would seem to me to be paramount.
What do you think?
Access: Public
Profundity..in due respect…adress what you mean more concretely. Would appreecitate you give us your name. At least a fictional one. lets communicate very clear and with transparence here, with mutual respect in spite of differences , frictions and tension.
As this is a public sphere its a good opportunity to exercise res publica in the best form.
A.
Thanks. I probably should have asked if what I had posted was what you meant or might have been referring to regarding your statement that “SDi has not solved this riddle yet.” Then perhaps you could have elaborated upon that aspect?
In regard to the name thing, fictional or otherwise, I have written more about that [here].
Hmmm, weird, it appears that I can not edit my own comment above. So, I edited my original blog message above to potentially answer my own questions. Please let me know what you think about the edited version and what exactly you mean by “concrete” as it initially appears that you may be making some uncommunicated assumptions here.
You are tagging here: Fascism, fascitisic tendencies..what exactly refer you to? What example do you think of? What is your personal background experience with these topics?
Besides reading….
You wrote:
> You are tagging here: Fascism, fascitisic tendencies..
> what exactly refer you to? What example do you think of?
> What is your personal background experience with these topics?
>
> Besides reading…
It had to do with my question that read, “In other words, how do you see SDi as transcending fascistic tendencies?”
Do you have an answer for that?
What is my experience with fascism? What do you call it when you have a President making his own rules and laws and/or interpreting those rules/laws WITHOUT consent of any court of law or other branch of government?! Do you think that I should I have used the word “dictatorship” instead?
You appear antagonistic here. How might you explain that attitude or frame of perspective in SDi terms?
What country do you refer?….to? Example?
More important also: if this sdi got ways other than always talk about 'impose more amber control' ….. hehe. :)
You wrote:
> What country do you refer?….to? Example?
I refer specifically to the United States and President Bush and all people under him who act in a similar manner under a similar non-authority.
as I see from Europe……it will not be easy for aNY president next year to initiate new politics. Especially foreign relations with Europe : There is at least as much consensus between red and blue positions as right now.
To re-shape such profound large scale issuse:
Thats beyond any bi-partisan approach. These discussions are stormy and most diverse in Europe and USA: And more and more I see the real Action and Natural Design Appproach of Don Beck as a leading global project. There may be other ones. I have no idea about them.
Albert
I just added two more paragraphs to the initial post. Perhaps see if that helps?
Vote for Ron Paul! I am referring to……those of us “over here in the USA”…..ALBERT! For someone so arrogant and condescending, it surprises me that Profundity has been gracious enough……to even acknowledge you. I thought he addressed his points very concretely! For one who knows all, how could you not get “what country?” Not “Rocket Science” here Albert and if you should comment on my remarks, do not expect a response. You are feeling very mean spirited right now.
Profundity, I love your choice of name. You have every right to be addressed…..as you so desire. If another does not respect this and questions your way of being, know that it is just a projection of their feeling……little self worth. It takes more strength and courage to be kind, as you have demonstrated Profundity……after being jerked around by someone who feels……..unnecessary details are a sign of intelligence.
Quote from “Albert”….Einstein.
Imagination Is More Important Than Knowledge.
You have a great imagination Profundity, a true thinker. You have feelings, insights and great sensitivity, along with an altruistic nature…which is a requirement for the survival of our species. And SDi is not going to help developing nations. It is just another tier concept for describing separation that already exists.
People need to get real, stop talking about it….(Albert interjects, “stop talking about what?”) and take responsibility.
Love is the answer and sometimes it is so hard to love certain aspects/wounds of some people. I will try harder…………..
I tend neither judgement nor discernment. People are who or what they are in any one particular moment for whatever reason and that can change at any moment or even from moment to moment. I do not hold people to any one singular experience that I may have had from or with them in the past. Perhaps developing nations and even nations that have existed for many millenia would do well to keep this kind of thing in mind?
Profundity, Can you please remove my message above? I have had only two hours sleep and was too quick to remark. It was what I thought and felt, but could have been a bit kinder in expressing my frustrations. Everyone has something to work out…me too. Lots of Love to all.
Perhaps think of both of yourselves not only as mirrors but as “developing nations” who are looking for better ways? How might both of you introduce and/or expose the other to a higher quality of dialogue?
What you wrote was real for “that” moment. I am not making you wrong for that, neither is anyone else, only you are. Now you have the opportunity to transcend that moment. Tell me how you would have written that statement IF you had been in your so-called right mind. Perhaps use as much SDi and/or NVC dialogue languaging as possible? Lots of people try to make up excuses for their behavior when there really is no such thing as an excuse. Apologies do not help either as only future actions demonstrate that actual learning/healing took place. Reality-of-the-moment is what it is and it is actually a VERY precious thing. Authenticity seems hard to come by these days, perhaps practice it with kindness and/or gentility?
AH! No mercy for me here Profundity. Smiling.
Battle not with monsters lest ye become one, for when you look into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you.
Nietzche
This is a dialoque that started between both you and Albert. Let it remain so. I know what my mistake was here and will learn from it. Thank you for posting on Minksy, which is right on.
Sharing that you are not making me right or wrong, only that I am, and then to go on and state a better way to practice authenticity…perhaps with kindness or gentility…..is finding something wrong, thus betraying your judgement.
See how this can turn into something that will receive more attention than it deserves. Pick and choose your battles, let destiny deal with the small stuff. For me today? this is small stuff.
Finding Love/Understanding/Compassion, for the men who held captive my friend……tortured, raped, killed her and left her naked body by the side of a deserted road…..is difficult.
Having found love and forgiveness for Albert, in that he was unloving towards you in a moment of his own suffering…was easy. My apologies Albert! I forgive you for being unloving in a moment, just as I have already forgiven myself for being same. :)
[deep breaths…ahhh…]
Actions have consequences and are not so easily undone. Why not do it the most optimal way the first time? Why not reread what you wrote before posting it and then reread it again up to 15 minutes after that point to be SURE that your message contains what you MEAN for it to contain? Who was it that said, “Say what you mean and mean what you say”?
You also said that you would rewrite your message differently and yet you chose rather to write the above message instead. Who is it that is actually teaching you a lesson in integrity here? Was it not YOU yourself who wrote those words that now stare back at you?
I never judged you, you did. You asked for the chance to do better, you didn't (by your own words).
“The deeper the breath the better the outcome.”